Programming

[FRB]

I guess it's not a true, turing complete language, but regular expressions are INSANELY USEFUL.

http://www.regular-expressions.info/tutorial.html

[muh1488]

alot of programming is just storing, moving and manipulating data

[clonesoftyr]

All street shitters are code ripping con artists yes but you can work them if you know how.

I think even the pros rip code snippets from the net to complete projects now.

The baddest ex-coders who became company owners will tell you they should have innovated their ideas sooner than thy did as that's where the glory was (company ownership).

...innovation

Unfortunately, getting a CS degree is the best way to get in the door. It used to be you could get hired on with IT and work your way up to software or system engineer. Unless you know somebody, it's unlikely you're going to get any decent jobs sans degree.

Here it is.

Do you want to apply for jobs at Shoppify, Google Samsung etc? If so do this.

I was asked to edit a friends website who had a CS degree 4 years prior and the edit was a basic PHP array edit, he had forgot or never learned!

[clonesoftyr]

code written by white/eastern asians costs lots of money so there is also a push to outsource this shit.

yes

[Vitamin-KKK]

C++ is a dragon - it's powerful but dangerous. You'd be better off learning C#.

C++ was the first language I used. I ran a dial up BBS back in the early 90s and if you registered the software the author would send you the source code. There was little community of modders on FidoNet in the pre-Internet days. It was fun. I was hooked.

But yeah, C++ will punish lazy coding harshly. I am glad i learned about dynamic memory management in C++. I mostly use C# now, and it's easy easy.

[GlockDoctor]

What would you say would be the best programming languages to learn for IT security? I'm currently getting a Bachelors in digital forensics with a minor in computer science. I'm also teaching myself programming languages starting with HTML/CSS with SASS and plan to learn Python next.

[FRB]

Python is a good start for security, just from a tooling perspective:

dloss/python-pentest-tools

You'd ideally want to tackle something close to hardware so you can understand why certain attacks work (C or ASM). ASM for modern architecture can get complicated, so learn a simpler arch like the Z-80 first or HLA (high level assembler - http://oopweb.com/Assembly/Documents/ArtOfAssembly/Volume/toc.html). ASM is useful for reverse engineering as well.

If you have a hankering for network security, Javascript is probably another good bet.

Additionally, you should pick up a knowledge of SQL for SQL exploits.

[DigitTorz]

Currently tackling python myself. I started about 5 months ago. I'm finding that the process of finding projects to practice and learn new aspects of programming the most difficult. Automatetheboringstuff was really my first starting point if you decide to start with python. It is a free book that's worth looking at IMO.

[OGruf-Sepp-Dietrich]

I do in the graphic/gaming field. In my field, C++ is a must, all these scripting languages like python and whatnot are for fags. You get speed only with C/C++
Unfortunately you have to use OO C++ these days although it cost a lot of speed. I don't like it and would prefer to use old C only, but you can't get around that shit.
Ada is great language but it has lots of problem in the implementation, mainly that there is inly one company manufacturing it and the licensing conditions suck, although you get a non-commercial version for free.

If you are a youngster who wants to make a living in programming however, here is my advice: learn COBOL!

You may now think

but think about it for a moment: 75% of the worlds mainframe programs that run banks, airlines, worldwide systems ae written in COBOL coming from the old IBM days. COBOL isn't taught at colleges anymore because it's not hip. Youngsters learn scribble shit like JAVA.

Most of the COBOL programmers are in their 50s and 60s and about to retuire. The big companies are begging on their knees for people who can maintain that old shit.

If you want a carreer that can not easily be replaced by a bunch of Paki streetshitters, consider learning COBOL!

[my_struggle]

Best Python book/tutorial you're going to find: http://www.diveintopython3.net

Better get it as a pdf or rip the site because the guy decided to try and scrub himself from the Internet and removed all his other sites; not sure why he left that one up.

If you're having a hard time coming up with projects, then you've got to just reinvent some wheels. Who cares if it's been done countless times before--make your own for the sake of learning! Why do you think there are infinite text editors? (Though this is NOT a good project to start with--it's a lot more complicated than you think to make a good text editor) because at some point it becomes the new "Hello world!" of advanced programming.

Just getting any little project off the ground will motivate you to add a feature, and then another feature... and before you know it, you've learned a helluvalot. You might not ever really use the goddamn program, but you will have made tremendous gains in seeing it through.

Don't start with a whole program in mind. Start with a piece of that puzzle; a tool that you suspect you might need for that program; and try to generalize the problem (of making the tool) so that you can make it useful for other projects, as well.

Once you are able to make your first little tool, you will have pulled yourself into a virtuous circle. Programming can be frustrating at times, but it's also immensely rewarding; though they may not be tangible, you can appreciate your accomplishments. You'll just hate to leave any project in limbo. Once you start it, it will call to you "complete me", "make me perfect"!

Don't let people put you off from Python. It has to be the best place to start. It's got to be the most readable language (which goes a very long way, especially as a noob). It has much more utility than web languages (you can actually use it every day to make your life easier), and there isn't much (if anything) you can't do in it (though, not everything may be recommended).

[FRB]

An excellent post, with one niggling caveat:

Don't start with a whole program in mind. Start with a piece of that puzzle; a tool that you suspect you might need for that program; and try to generalize the problem (of making the tool) so that you can make it useful for other projects, as well.

While this is excellent advise for learning programming, keep in mind that it's very much the opposite in programming for large organizations.

[DigitTorz]

Tell me whats more likely.. Big company's migrating to a different language because no one codes in the language anymore, or they beg and plead for cobal coders kicking and screaming?

[OGruf-Sepp-Dietrich]

Begging for COBOL programmers, because that's what they have been doing for years now.
let me ask you another question: Do you really believe that a Something like Bank Of America or Capital One will rewrite their perfectly working software in C++ or Java because some hippy kid from College goes to the CEO and says: "Oh you know, COBOL is so 60's you really need to come over to the here and now, chief! Me and my buds from DeVry Institute can hook you up with completely new software in 6 months"?

[putinpepe]

Software isnt going to be rewritten any time soon, but ADA and COBOL arent really being used for new projects. Over time C++ is probably going to steadily gain market share over the next decade. Especially with new language features in the next few years.

[OGruf-Sepp-Dietrich]

If that is so, then that is sad. I'm not saying new software should be written in COBOL but C and C++ are the cream dela shit. C is fast, yes and for graphics there is no alternative. I use them because I have to and because they're fast but I hate them both, for different reasons.
I mean what kind of buttlicker comes up with a language where you have to pay attention to your own strings so that they don't overrun memory.
In it's days C was nicknamed the PDP8 macro assembler and that's really what it was. Just a better way to write assembly programs for the PDP machines while saving each and every source code byte possible because reading a bunch of BEGIN's actually slows down your compilation process significantly when you have to read the source from a paper tape.

[putinpepe]

If that is so, then that is sad.

I mean I'm just guessing, I mostly do node-based web programming right now myself.

I mean what kind of buttlicker comes up with a language where you have to pay attention to your own strings so that they don't overrun memory

Meh C and C++ aren't that bad. You're free to build or use an string or array implementation (like std::vector.at() for example) with runtime bounds checking if you want to pay the cost. C and C++ don't by default provide saftey features with runtime costs like some other languages, but no one is keeping you from using libraries that do.

In fact there are some people for whom C is often not low-enough level, who feel the need to spend time inspecting assembly output etc etc. It's all a spectrum between abstraction and "control" so to speak.

[OGruf-Sepp-Dietrich]

I know, I know, but the problems with libraries are two fold:
1) There is only one "right" implementation for most algorithms and why leave it to a bunch of external guys to find it. Then you have to choose the right library and find out the possible flaws yourself. Not for naught is it that most people nowadays use Microsofts std implementation instead of using one of the external tool libraries
2) With external libraries the language does not understand the internals of the datastructures, so you have to implement all possible solutions yourself. Hence the need to templates in C++ which are a catastrophe in themselves. If all standard datastructures were part of the language, the language knew how to copy an array of structures with arrays of structures and a simple assignment would do the trick,. Instead we have to implement copy constructors and copy operators and whatnot for every datadefinition we do. Not cool.

There was a time when Pascal and Modula-2 where predominant in the Micro market, but right at that time the PCs became so powerful that the Minicomputer market broke down and all the college hippies that programmed those 1970s Minis flooded the PC market and brought C and their crappy libraries with them and that was the end of the Pascal style languages. They were way better to work with,

[QuanticBit]

[QuanticBit]

level
Binary language (machine language)---Assembly language---C language

Greeting!
I think Assembly and C are the best language to security
low level language allow full control of the machine, low level language is ideal for virus/keylogger/spyware
i am not experienced in the subject, i only know where to start studying, but for what i researched, all high level language is interpreted in assenbly, besides high level languages are limited and do not provide total control of the machine.
Sorry for the long text comrade!

[Wheatley]

I'm in mostly embedded development. I was about to declare C/C++ "obsolete" for 99% of all applications because nobody gives a shit about performance any more - even in embedded.

Then ... mobile and IOT. Now it's all about power consumption which means wimpier and wimpier new processors every day. In fact, I'm having to go even lower than C and add some ARM assembly and SIMD (NEON) intrinsics in projects. More amazing? I'm having to convert float algorithms to fixed point (cue up Vanilla Ice music).